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Suspending forum operation

Discussion in 'Misc' started by James, Nov 15, 2018.

  1. James

    James Host

    Hi gents,

    I've decided to step back from this project and put it into abeyance, and will be shutting it down before the end of the year.

    Since a few guys have made a genuine go at it, specifically @Shaney96 , @Kostadin , @Fundinn , and also @Tom , you're owed a debrief before I step back from it.

    The primary reason is I don't have the spare personal capacity to continue maintaining it (and definitely not enough to upgrade it like it needs), haven't for a while, and that's unlikely to turn around in the near future. I have to focus on some other pressing matters in my life until they're to my satisfaction, so I'm unfortunately not in a position to sustain a project designed to help others for now.

    The secondary reason is I'll need to rethink the project. The offering simply doesn't resonate with the vast majority of the target audience. It has been interesting to carry out the project, and it's helped me better understand the nature of the problems faced by want-a-better-life young men.

    As originally mentioned back when I started it, it was motivated by having been a unguided young man who would've benefited enormously if I'd just been set on the right track back in my late teens, instead of being clueless and having no idea how to get what I want in life and having no like-minded peers. I wanted to make the resource that I needed, that would've lead to my timely success if I'd had it.

    I intend to take crack at another project in the same vein in the future, but I can't afford it for the time being.

    Reflection
    I think the reasons a facility like this hasn't resonated are as follows:

    (1) 95% of young men who are in weak positions are there by their own hand. I suspected this percentage was quite high, but I was surprised to see it that high. People signing up after a stringent screening process and then not even posting an introduction -- which they specifically had to click to promise to -- was more common than not. So was committing to a goal and then never visiting the site again.

    Most of them want to just wish or vent. Adding a screening process did little to screen out talkers and lazies (I think about 40 users total registered, and only 4 became real participants), but no doubt reduced overall registration figures and therefore total engagement.

    In cases like the Brazilian kid, it's pretty obvious that some people are simply never going to do anything to improve their position. They're only looking for alleviation from the bad feelings that result from their position. They purely want to vent and moan, look for magic bullets, and pretend they're doing something to fix the situation without actually expending effort. There's nothing that can be done for them, and places like this are for those who want to succeed but aren't sure how, not for guys like them.

    In cases like the bodybuilder, I think he's a go-getter but just didn't see the value in this place, because he'd do what it takes off his own bat anyway.

    The aim was to provide a facility that will help a specific subset of young men: those who are in a weak position and want to improve it, and are willing to put the effort involved in. Being useful to them, and at the same time keeping out neck-weights who'd distract them, while keeping participation numbers growing, is a difficult challenge. And it will take a lot of rethinking and a lot of work to create.

    (2) The internet is not conducive to it. The internet is primarily about "consuming content". More specifically, forums (like Reddit or standalone forums like this) are not conducive to it. Producing and reading large amounts of text simply isn't aligned with attaining success in life for 99% of people. Consuming media just doesn't help much to fix problems. So many guys watch stuff like RSD, buy masterclass DVD boxsets on whatever, go to bootcamps, read books and so on, but 99% of it just doesn't help anyone but the business selling it.

    How many people who've read "the 4 hour workweek" have ended up with a 4 hour workweek? Possibly a dozen among the millions who've read it. Most of those kinds of books are fantasy novels disguised as self-help manuals. A lot of people indulge in stuff like this for the same reason housewives read romance novels -- to enjoy fantasy and escapism -- not to actually change anything.

    And how many people who want to make serious change in their life think "I'll sign up and talk about it on an internet forum?". A few, but very few.

    For this reason there's something fundamentally misaligned with an internet forum as the core of such a project. It's likely that a multifaceted tool is the solution, that is closer to live mastermind groups plus logging tools and integrated material (like the Inspirers) to form a guiding influence, and probably approaching existing real-life go-getter groups in various cities to form networks.

    The internet offers wide reach, which has its place, but it also causes feelings of isolation, and pulls people into their computers.

    (3) This place doesn't have enough to offer. Gort & the goal system has value, but by itself it's not enough. It would need a lot more content, tools, offerings, things going on, partnerships/associations etc, as well as a community that's reached critical mass. That would take a concerted effort and lots of spare time and resources to achieve.

    I think the things the forum has done well are:

    (1) Some guys have been helped by it. I think the guys who stuck at it found some use in committing to a goal and being held accountable by like-minded peers, as well as finding some value in the feedback they received.

    (2) It shone a pretty strong light, based on the drive-by members, on why most guys are failing. I'm sure the members who stuck around felt some inspiration from that: you're already in the top 5% of guys by just taking action.

    (3) Taught me some things about starting and maintaining a project like this, as well as some things about the men's self-improvement space, so when I one day start another project it'll be better informed and prepared.

    Thoughts on the men's self-improvement space generally

    The core problem is school and parents. The primary age of men getting drawn into the "manosphere" as it's called is around 23. Basically, guys who've spent the last 15 or so years being "educated", but with education that is worthless and doesn't help them attain what they want in life (which is supposed to be the whole point). They hit the real world, find themselves massively unequipped, so they go looking for answers.

    This is why they get drawn into buying "educational products" like masterclass box sets, bootcamps, and men's activism books from guru bloggers. This is why the end up spending hour after hour consuming "red pill" non-mainstream advice content -- because the mainstream has been zero help to them.

    Most parents don't really care about their sons' success, and neither did their teachers. Which is why predatory industries like PUA spring up, as well as "leave the 9-to-5" gurus, who claim to fill the education gap, but with even less qualifications and even less alignment of interests.

    Unfortunately many of these young men drain into places like "The Red Pill", one of the worst places for young men on the internet, which focuses mostly on grumbling, with mere sprinklings of self-efficacy and self-improvement.

    "Enjoy the decline", "AWALT", "oppression of men", and so on, all share one thing in common: indulging in concepts of powerlessness. If you're powerless, you're beyond blame for your position, and effort is pointless -- precisely the lie they wish to enjoy. Life is crap and we're doomed, merely avoiding victimization is a battle, and long-term happiness is a pipe dream. TRP is a complete cesshole of a place with a veneer of "forbidden truths" to lure young men in. (And the truth is none of what they say is accurate other than "be diligent and strong" -- there are plenty of places in the world on the rise, not all women are baddies, and oppression is much easier to avoid than they think).

    This is why for all of their internet furor, their keyboard bashing, no actual tangible and effective forms of men's organizations have sprung up (with perhaps some exception in the US), while groups like feminists, socialists, multiculturalists, political correctists, still retain unchecked hegemony, and there's no signs of moving back to equal footing or any attempt to help paint bright futures for men born outside the elite.

    So those internet groups are pretty useless in the grand scheme of things. They are no engines of success stories. Much better can be done than places like that.

    How things could be improved

    I think the primary point of the existing regime to be targeted is the university system, followed by the high school system. University has to go. It's the heart of the beast -- the center of the problem. For most people who attend it, it does them no benefit at most. They leave with heavy debt, piss-weak marketable skills if they're lucky, and 4 years older. For others they leave worse than they came.

    There is nothing tangibly beneficial a university can do in 4 years that a specific-purpose training academy or an apprenticeship under a skilled master couldn't do in 1, or a few books and self-study couldn't do for free in around the same period.

    Meanwhile these universities and the public school system act as a well-funded poison factory for some of the most destructive and unproductive political ideologies in the world, which in turn stokes political backlash on the other extreme of politics. They act as a hot bed and fuel and utility for pointless political agitation. It does no favors to society.

    The solution would be restoring older forms of social organization that weren't as flawed, such as the master-apprentice system, starting work earlier in life, restoring a good reputation for marriage, and attending specific purpose limited training with narrow intent, rather than broad and excessively drawn out general schooling (like "school of fish").

    If young men were on meaningful track at an earlier age -- i.e. what they were learning was aligned with what they want in life, such as a good woman and a good income and a bright future -- there would be far fewer unhappy young men.

    But this is something for the future.

    Well done
    @Shaney96 You did solid work, and racked up the most action and achievement points on the forum. You definitely have more knowledge and experience under your belt now than at the beginning, as well as making improvements. No doubt if you keep steadily doing similar things (but not too much -- watch the burnout) you're going to find and get what you want. Not having a nice woman you're into in your life sucks, and it'll niggle at you until it's rectified, but you've got time. Steady work plus focus plus patience is the key. I'm sure the other go-getters would agree, it's very unlikely you won't eventually attain what you want. It'll just take time. Thanks for your participation in this project.

    @Kostadin You're committed to your work and being the best you can be, and you get work done. This will bode well for your future. As long as you keep pushing to stand out and be the best in valuable things, and you don't get derailed by falling in with a bad crowd or taking up bad habits, you'll be a high flier by your mid twenties. You were also the best voter here, with the most total votes cast, helping keep the goal process flowing.

    For the future, as we've hinted a couple of times, you do have to move more focus into aligning your efforts with a longer term personal success plan. The standard long term plan to think of is money. As long as you are valuable to the market and can get high income, you avoid a lot of life's difficulties, and you gain access to a lot of good things that your peers won't. Wealth is extremely tangible. While skills-based certificates like the English tests you're doing are valuable and aligned with that, things like straight As in topics that you'll never use in real life are not that valuable. The most successful people I've known were B students. Most of the straight A students ended up staying in academia, doing PhDs and then becoming researchers to keep massaging their "I'm clever" ego, and none of them have ended up in an impressive position. To some extent the report card system is a trick: a list of As implies you're on track, but as far as the real world is concerned -- no one ever asks your grades. Marketable skills are prime -- the market sets the real tests, and you don't get letters you get dollars. Grades matter only to the extent you need them to enter higher education to learn something genuinely valuable (e.g. medicine). Just food for thought.
    And thanks for having being actively involved here.

    @Fundinn You seem pretty on track and definitely a go-getter. No doubt things are going to go well for you by continuing to push forward. Definitely posted some interesting goals! Thanks for having sticked around here.

    @Tom Hope things are going well for you. You took a solid crack at some goals and really launched into action. Hopefully you'll keep going with your goals and no doubt you'll eventually get the results you want if you do. Thanks for your participation.

    So with that gents, thank you all again for your participation. I'll leave the forum open for a while and give notice when I'm going to close it down, so you can save any of your data in the mean time etc. If/when I start another venture in the future, I'll send out an email. In the meantime, keep striving at your goals! I'll be doing the same.

    Regards,
    James, GoGetters Community
     
    Fundinn likes this.
  2. Shaney96

    Shaney96 Active Member

    Rating points:
    94
    Action points:
    634
    Result points:
    709
    Cheers man, I sincerely appreciate the effort you've put into the building, maintaining, and contributing toward this community. You're a guy that, although I've not a fucking clue what you look like or how you behave, I'd buy a pint for and would be deemed a "sound lad".

    I'd go through and quote chips of your post, but I'd be here a while, and it's something I'd otherwise prefer to speak over in an 'old man's pub' with a Guinness.

    Perhaps an irrelevant, solipsistic paragraph or two I'll write about myself, for I've been vacant for some time:
    I've been having the counselling I said I'd get, and have had 3 sessions thus far. I've realized that Computer Science most certainly (for now) isn't something I want to go into and am not (currently) interested in, and the last thing I'd like to do after University is to go into a CompSci-related job. I've recently gotten more into spirituality/philosophy, and have rid of so much of my material possessions. I aim to go travelling post-Uni for an indefinite amount of time with no set plan, but just to experience more of life and face hardships and just fucking realize more of who I am and what I like.

    This community has helped me learn more about myself. I've faced some fucking strange and difficult crossroads (mainly regarding women) that have made me heavily question myself and my morals. Although I've only '1 notch', I aim to become at peace with this, and instead believe it's more important to truly focus on myself, for if I go and chase women, I believe I'll end up finding that "1 more is never enough", and it'll be a vicious cycle of needing to fill that bottomless void. Currently I have but 2 close friends, and no intimacy. My headspace is clearing, and I'm becoming more, well, myself. I'm slowly beginning to realize the insanity of the people and how they live their lives. How people like things because they simply think they like them, and do jobs and shit because they think they want/need to do them. I could rant on about this shit, but I reckon you guys know exactly what I'm getting at here; it's all fucking nuts.

    Regarding TRP, I think there's plenty of stuff on there that could alter your mindset to be more misogynistic, and that's the danger behind it, for the intention is generally positive and there are some genuinely great posts on there that revolve around Stoicism, abundance, how to see women in a positive light yet still do well with them, how important it is to focus on yourself and not have women as the focal point.. etc... But my abuse of it caused my mindset to shift into a negative light, and therefore every time I saw a girl - attractive or not - I'd feel such an internal pressure to at least talk to her and, well, basically have some intention to fuck her. It's ridiculously toxic.

    Anyways, pardon the solipsism.
    Thanks @James , @Fundinn , @Tom and @Kostadin . Your advice has been appreciated and I recall genuinely looking forward to reading your guys' responses and updates to brainstorms/goals. I recall first meeting up with @Tom , which was an enjoyable coffee and chat, and going into WHSmith and finding the Mills and Boon ;)

    Man, a year ago, where was I? 21 was a difficult year for me, and therefore an important one. I'm learning more about the importance of balance. I will eventually get back into cold-approaching and going to bars and shit, but not for the time being, for I believe I must relieve that perspective I currently have on these things and also reduce how much self-worth I derive from women. It's all a process and I don't regret having those cold-approach goals, as only through all of that have I learned about how there's likely some underlying issues I have with women, that may be resolved through deeper introspection and therapy.

    Anyways, what I'm getting at is that the platform you've provided for us has been of great help (for me anyways, and I reckon the others will attest to this statement). There's a lot of lost boys out there, and many men in general who realize that they have all the means of improving their lives and also men who just feel lost as fuck, and places like this help us help eachother get out of this shit.
     
  3. Fundinn

    Fundinn Active Member

    Rating points:
    44
    Action points:
    207
    Result points:
    304
    Hey James. Thanks a lot for taking some of your personal time to build this project. I remember sending you a message over Reddit after you had made a post in TRP about creating a space for people who wanted to get their shit together. You swiftly answered back with a link to this place and that was the start of something new and fresh. I knew, immediately that you were serious and systematic about this project, which was fantastic.

    I do think that change can take years, and that the forum is a difficult place to get a sense of evolution on people's progress. I'm talking here about negative habits that have been going on for a decade or so. They take a very, very long time to eliminate.

    Otherwise, I agree with most of your points, especially about University and going back to an apprentice-master system with real male role models that can better align younger men. I'll leave it at that.

    As for everyone else, send me an e-mail at LMNO.PATRICK@GMAIL.COM and I can create a whatsapp group, life has good things in store for us and I would like to keep touch with you guys.

    @Shaney96 You were the most vocal out of the bunch and put yourself out there on many occasions. Some people say that fear is ignorance, well I believe you are less ignorant, and therefore braver. I enjoyed your sincerity and I like your meticulous work on analyzing your feelings, you are drawing a new map for your life and these experiments will pay back two-fold in the future. Brick by brick, you lay a new foundation, stay sharp, attend to the construction process, challenge it and before you know it you will be in awe of what you are building.

    @Kostadin I liked following your academic work, you are aware of the dangers of procrastination, I have no doubt that, whatever path you choose, you are setting up an example for your peers.

    @Tom You are bold and I liked your messages on here, I feel like you won't have any issues stepping and pushing your way over others to claim your rightful place. Keep stacking up that confidence(keep a watchful eye on pride).
     
    Shaney96 likes this.
  4. Kostadin

    Kostadin Active Member

    Rating points:
    159
    Action points:
    337
    Result points:
    270
    At some point a month ago I asked myself something along the lines "Why James isn't as active as he should be if this is his project?". Now everything makes sense.

    Thank you @James for your efforts. This place helped me understand some things about the world and myself, and taught me why discipline is so important. I agree with what you have said about the grades thing and it's about time I really try to find what interests me and focus on it, instead of wandering around and investing my time and energy ultimately in things that are not interesting, not beneficial, or worst case scenario - both.

    @Shaney96 Your posts related to women and relationships inspired me to take action. I didn't mention almost anything about it here, since it wasn't a primary focus of my life, however, I can't help but admit that partly is it thanks to you that I realized "So what if you fuck up?" and started putting myself there. Thanks for the music too.

    @Fundinn Your goals from the second part of our time here (networking, friendships, etc) threw a light on another thing that I had been doing wrong in my life. I have yet to really have a like-minded acquaintances in real life, but now I at least know what I'm looking for. I don't know if you remember, but around a month ago you told us this story (or something along those lines) - you shared a place with two girls, but you didn't let loose as far as your habits. And when they commented that you wake up so early to meditate, you answered "It's just my routine.". I have exchange of words this written on a piece of paper and it has been on my cork wall for a little while now.

    @Tom If you wake up from your 2 month hiatus before the website closes, I hope you're doing well with "sorting your life out", as this was your last post. Assuming that you did paint your room in "black metal theme", I want to see pictures. :D

    It was nice to meet people who combine their drive with pragmatism. In my life most people have only one of those qualities at best.

    James' first post was on 17th of December 2017. It's been 11 months.
    In the beginning of 2017 I started facing my fears and removing the bad habits from my life. By the end of 2017 I had started slipping into them again. Thanks to all of you, I kind of managed to stay on the right track, at least as far some things are considered. Both your direct and indirect influence on me have been positive. Once again, thank you.

    P.S. I second that we should keep in touch. @Fundinn, I've sent you an e-mail.
     
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